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ACTION ON SMOKING AND HEALTH (ASH)
A National Legal-Action Antismoking Organization 2013 H Street, NW / Washington, DC 20006 / (202) 659-4310 |
ASH Executive Director John Banzhaf blasted the much-discussed tobacco industry deal on CNN's "Crossfire," calling it a sellout at 5 cents on the dollar which would leave the tobacco industry free to kill and free the only product not subject to federal regulation. Professor John Banzhaf was chosen to represent the antismoking point of view. Attorney John Coale of Washington was participating as one of the attorneys at the negotiating table, and was generally supportive of a deal -- although he insisted that no firm deal was in fact being discussed. Also participating were Sam Kazman, General Counsel for the Competitive Enterprise Institute, a conservative organization which opposes the deal because it allegedly goes too far. The hosts were conservative columnist Patrick Buchanan, and liberal commentator Bill Press. The following are excerpts from the program:
BUCHANAN: John Banzhaf, let's get back to the deal. Now, this has been talked of as $300 billion. It's been talked of as $9 billion for the trial lawyers and all the rest of it. I mean, let me ask you, isn't this a deal, really, at the expense, how many lives of those smokers are going to be saved by all these fellows cutting, you know, cutting apart this pie when the stock market price of the cigarette companies is soaring? JOHN BANZHAF, ACTION ON SMOKING AND HEALTH: Well, Pat, that's one of the reasons why Action On Smoking and Health, the American Lung Association, many of the other anti-smoking organizations adamantly oppose this deal. Basically, what the tobacco industry is saying is they are going to say... COALE: There isn't a deal. You're opposing something that hasn't happened. BANZHAF: Excuse me. PRESS: Let him finish, John. I'll get you in. BANZHAF: You're interrupting! What this deal is is that for literally five cents on the dollar, the tobacco industry expects to get a license to continue to kill almost 500,000 people a year. They have a very weak case. We shouldn't be settling for five cents on the dollar. We shouldn't be exempting from regulation the only product which is currently exempt from any governmental regulation, which is tobacco. This is going to be fought all the way there is. Probably this ultimate idea that you can buy a universal peace, that you can cut off millions of people who have been exposed to tobacco smoke from suing is unconstitutional and will be challenged and shot down. [comments about the negotiations and who has been present] BANZHAF: But you guys have been shutting out the great bulk of the anti-smoking community so we have the tobacco industry on the one side, the trial lawyers on the other. Those are the two groups that I think the public trusts the least. COALE: That's not, that is absolutely not true. BANZHAF: How many public interest groups have been sitting at that table? COALE: Many. BANZHAF: Name them. COALE: I'm not at liberty to name them. BANZHAF: You know they weren't there. COALE: You're not sitting at the table... BANZHAF: I know exactly who was there and they weren't there. COALE: -- and maybe you should be but you're not and that's... BANZHAF: No, I know who was there, sir. BUCHANAN: ...these guys, who's going to pay the bill? You know who's going to pay it? Some poor guy that's addicted to cigarettes, when Philip Morris raises the price to pay off you guys, this guy's got an addiction, his price goes up, he's not going to be any healthier. BANZHAF: Pat, that's exactly the point. COALE: No, that is not what's at the table at all. BANZHAF: The tobacco industry is going to be paying this... COALE: You must be looking at another table. BANZHAF: ...out of price increases. BUCHANAN: No... PRESS: John? All right John. BANZHAF: We should be talking about $100 billion a year not coming out of price increases but coming out of the companies themselves. COALE: Why not the gross national product of Western Europe a year? I mean we have a problem we have to solve on a realistic basis. BANZHAF: Why don't we just let them pay for what they caused? COALE: We cannot shoot 'em. We have to try and deal with them. BANZHAF: Bill, let me give you another viewpoint for just a minute. BUCHANAN: Oh, let me get John... PRESS: John, go ahead. BANZHAF: These [advertising] restrictions which are being imposed on the tobacco industry are far less than have been imposed on every other drug manufacturer for more than 40 years. COALE: You don't know what's happened. BANZHAF: You don't see tranquilizers on billboards... COALE: There's nothing been imposed on anyone. BANZHAF: You don't see tranquilizers on race cars. BUCHANAN: But, you know, John... BANZHAF: It can't be unconstitutional. We do it to every other drug. BANZHAF: $300 billion is only five cents on the dollar. PRESS: John, hold on just -- John, hold on just a second. BANZHAF: You shouldn't settle for five cents on the dollar when you're talking about 500,000 lives a year. PRESS: All right, that... BANZHAF: Five cents on a dollar doesn't cut out. PRESS: John Banzhaf, let me ask you, one of the attorneys general involved in this suit is Hubert Humphrey, Jr. And his father once said that, he's the third, I'm sorry, but his father once said the one thing I've learned in politics is you never turn your back on a crumb. Now, John, you've got FDA regulation of cigarettes, you've got $300 billion and you've got an end to advertising to kids, that's a lot more than a crumb, isn't it? BANZHAF: No, considering that they kill 500,000 people a year and cost us $100 billion a year, what you're talking about is a crumb. They already, under the FDA regulations, and almost everybody who's looked at the case knows, they're not going to win the case, so all they're promising to do is basically obey what's already there. I'm not saying we would never settle with them under any terms, but when you have a strong case, you don't settle for five cents on the dollar, you don't grant people immunity and allow them to continue to kill and you don't cut off the rights of people who've already been exposed and say no!, you can't get adequate compensation. What's wrong with leaving that to a jury? It's the good old American way. If they think they've got a case, let 'em try it in court. We're happy to meet 'em in court. COALE: John, I agree with you, but that, it just happens that that's not what's being given away by our side. It's different. It's not like that. We're not going to settle this case... KAZMAN: No, smokers pay their own way. (crosstalk) When you look at the full issue, the fact that an average 30-year-old, two pack a day smoker has a life expectancy six to eight years less than a non-smoker and will draw less for that reason out of social security and pension and couple that with the 50 cent a pack cigarette tax, smokers more than pay their own way. PRESS: Sam... BANZHAF: Sam, you know that a court just rejected that very argument... PRESS: That's right. BANZHAF: It was within the last week. A court rejected that argument. Tobacco taxes, federal, state and local, total about $15 billion a year... BUCHANAN: All right... PRESS: No, Pat, I've got a question... BANZHAF: ...costing $100 billion. KAZMAN: Give the man... BANZHAF: The deficit is $85 billion a year. There's no way you get around that. BUCHANAN: How do you help them by raising the price of the cigarettes they're addicting to? COALE: You don't, you help them by helping them get their diseases handled. You help the other people by getting their, the addiction programs in there. You give 'em patches. Give 'em gum. Help the problem. PRESS: All right, John. John, one second... BANZHAF: But you don't do it with five cents on the dollar, John Coale. PRESS: John, I think you got the last word. BANZHAF: You need $100 billion a year to fight $100 billion a year problem... COALE: OK, John, come on over and get the $100 billion. BANZHAF: ...not $5 billion a year. BUCHANAN: They don't want to talk money. BANZHAF: This is an opening. This isn't a deal, it won't go through!
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ACTION ON SMOKING AND HEALTH (ASH)
A National Legal-Action Antismoking Organization 2013 H Street, NW / Washington, DC 20006 / (202) 659-4310 |